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| A New Way o' Thinking | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 6 2010, 09:57:17 AM (107 Views) | |
| Post #1 Mar 6 2010, 09:57:17 AM | Suzy |
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Warning! Warning! Another wild Suzy theory coming! Stand back, proceed with great caution...... I am having a life change. No, not that life change ( I wish!). I am having a major change in my thinking about my favorite hobby: The Marine Aquarium Hobby. You guys know Amie and I are taking this online college course, right? I have learned a ton, but mostly I am learning I don't know crap! I liked to think I had a degree in a biology related field, and that knowledge gave me what I needed to do what I wanted to in my basement. Big Wrong! Tsunami size wrong! I am finding my prior knowledge background only gave me one solid bit o' good practice: washing my hands before I touched my fishes food. Turns out, there is a bit more. And, what I thought was a good practice? Looking on the www for information about what I wanted, a good reef tank. I would go to Reef Central, RDO Seahorse.org, ect thinking this was actually good information. I would even read the articles by the "experts", and think that was good. Using some elses research is good, right? Why re-invent the wheel when all I have to do read Advanced Aquarist? Well, you are reading an Advanced Aquarist author right now, and I should know: There isn't a lot of actual research going into this stuff! Some do. But, some are very biased. And, the threads written by people who have had tanks for a few years are just anecdotal info. "I had an issue, this fixed it". Others read it, pass this on as fact. But, I am just now finding out: THERE IS REAL RESEARCH ON ALL I WANT TO KNOW! No, I don't have to re-invent the wheel, but I need to look for information that is research based, not anecdotal. Any thoughts? |
Seahorse Whisperer
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"i was informed of some dolphin related testing going on up there" Too Funny! | |
 
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| Post #2 Mar 6 2010, 10:20:51 AM | Amie |
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That's what I'm learning as well, that marine forums are nice, but research is by far the best way to go. I thought it was interesting when he said that the researchers that have had a lot of success really don't share their information with hobbyist. So hobbyists are on their own, basically. It's like there are 2 worlds and we have to pick which one we want to be a part of. I'm still struggling will all of the different places to do the research, there is so much information. I went to Weber State, and they didn't have the Zoological Record. Apparently, the UofU is the only place that has it. I guess another thing is that the research information that I have found is on such massive scale and not really possible for my small home situation. When I read about growing phytoplankton in 50-100 gallon drums, that's not going to happen. Or raising cleaner shrimp using a flow-through system directly from the ocean...yeah, right. So I have to figure out how to somehow convert the scientists methods into a hobbyist budget and space limitations. Plus, figure out why their method works (flow-through, for example) and try to design something else that will hopefully replicate the same type of system. |
stormy, stormy nights
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http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/technology/mammals/interns.html Tell them Adam sent you. | |
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| Post #3 Mar 6 2010, 07:46:51 PM | fisher32 |
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The web. So do we really have to go to school? Remember the days we would go to the library and look for a book on any subject and found that it was out. I sit here reading every article I can get my eyes on... today it's nudi's...tomorrow it's shrimp...a lifetime searching for the best way to recreate an enviornment as close to the species that intrests us in hopes of putting the puzzle together. Every bit of the puzzel is out there..and more pieces are being put together as we speak. We as avid hobbiests are trying to keep adding pieces of the puzzel and keep from destroying the natural enviornmet of the oceans. Our pieces of the puzzel are as important as the biologist in his lab. As hobbiests we all have labs...more than they do...yes the shear numers of us. We also have the knowleged weather it be by trials or tribulations ...or some facts from each endever. When we post on our site...the web of information grows. I visit many sites ...looking and learning. We are constrained to budgets...we don't have labs...we do have eachother and the web to share it all. One day after we compile all the information , experience and dedication..we may find someone looking to us for facts. Our school is the web and eachother. |
breeding stock
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| Somthins fishy around here....and I like it that way! | |
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| Post #4 Mar 7 2010, 12:36:16 AM | Amie |
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Well stated, Bob. The web is an amazing place. There's more information available than one could ever imagine. I've talked to a few of these scientist that work at Universities and their hands always seem tied by budgets, grants, tenure, and people above them telling them exactly what to do. If their budget for a project gets cut, they are done with that project. If they don't have the right equipment, they have to requisition it and hope that the department will buy in the next few years. It seems like their main goal for everything they do, is to write a paper for a journal in order to make money for the department they are working for. I'd hate that pressure. We have the benefit of working on whatever we want to work on, talking to whomever we want to talk to, sharing or not sharing information, buying that cheap microscope from a friend or the one off of ebay, etc. We may not have tons of money to buy big lab equipment, but we can be innovative and come close to lab-like setups. I really think that our environment has potential to have just as much success as any scientist could have. The question is, where should the information go after a hobbyist 'discovers' something that might be of some significance. Is that information valid if it was not discovered in a genuine science lab? |
stormy, stormy nights
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http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/technology/mammals/interns.html Tell them Adam sent you. | |
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| Post #5 Mar 7 2010, 05:29:28 AM | Suzy |
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I think it could be useful but will never be as valid as what is found in a research lab. They do such controlled experiments, with control tanks and repeats over and over to prove that something happens with a certain process every time. What the average hobbyists does cannot compare to that. I am not sure we can be called average hobbyists. I can recreate the process of reducing Po4 with NO3 every time, but I only did it 3 times to prove it to myself. Valuable info for me to know, but it would not make anyone money, so this research would not be valuable to anyone else. But, without controlled experimentation, it is just theory and no where near scientific method. Maybe I should be researching "Scientific Method"? Where to put our discoveries is/will be an a forum like this, RC, RDO ect on a thread or article where it will be with the other discoveries that are maybe valid or not.(on Seahorse.org, one guy had a VHO light caught on fire. For years, they told everyone not to use VHO lights because they could start a fire. No one questioned his wiring, because he was a hobbyist for over a year!) I wonder if it is possible to have a place in between controlled, funded laboratory published science, and the anecdotal www we are used too? I think mostly what we will get is real researchers taking our efforts on to the next level.... |
Seahorse Whisperer
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"i was informed of some dolphin related testing going on up there" Too Funny! | |
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| Post #6 Mar 7 2010, 02:06:55 PM | Clint |
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Valid research is not name brand although it can feels like it. The thing that makes a line of research valid is the quality of the experimental design, and the precision and accuracy of the methods. There is also often a strong statistical component to research. There are lots of things that could be tested and verified on a small scale. It is more an issue of motivation. As has been stated, university research lives and dies by publishing and grant writing. They can often justify more elaborate projects because they have career riding on it. They have to publish to get any credit and validation for their next project. Any hobbyist can do great research. But there is little gain for a private person to go to the lengths to have something documented well enough to have it be considered valid. The cost benefit ratio for the effort is low, they are not needing it for their career or next project. Face it most hobbyists only need to learn enough and try enough things to answer a question in their own minds. They are not trying to build a case to convince a skeptical crowd.
Edited by Clint, Mar 7 2010, 02:08:48 PM.
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breeding stock
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| Midvale (435) 213-6215 | |
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| Post #7 Mar 8 2010, 07:27:50 AM | Suzy |
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That is so true for me, so far. I what to know what I am going and why I am doing it. I am not reading a thread on RC anymore, and taking that as fact. I what to know why it works, how it works and if it does work! But, there is some motivation to research a bit for our hobby: Money from Sponsors! I think my Po4/No3 research could benefit SeaChem or Kent. They could start marketing a product and put RhowPhos outta business! Just kidding..... |
Seahorse Whisperer
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"i was informed of some dolphin related testing going on up there" Too Funny! | |
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| Post #8 Mar 9 2010, 07:52:21 PM | Amie |
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I've wondered about this subject as well. If you really have discovered something worth 'knowing', is there anything you can do about it? Or you just take the information to the grave with you? Say you are a hobbyist that enjoys doing a little science on the side. Then one day, you discover that the slimy sludge that aiptasia produces when you pull them out of the tank actually cures cancer. You spend the next year experimenting with it, giving it to all of your neighbors that have cancer, and now they are all cured. So now what do you do? My guess is that no one will listen to you because you don't have a PhD in 'whatever'. And even if you did, you don't work at a University. |
stormy, stormy nights
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http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/technology/mammals/interns.html Tell them Adam sent you. | |
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| Post #9 Mar 10 2010, 05:32:07 AM | Suzy |
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In that case, you could send an email to a pharma company, and they would prove the research, get the FDA approval and maybe cut you a check! We can still profit off our research and inventions, just gotta play it right. |
Seahorse Whisperer
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"i was informed of some dolphin related testing going on up there" Too Funny! | |
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| Post #10 Mar 10 2010, 04:47:43 PM | Clint |
| If only it was that simple. |
breeding stock
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| Midvale (435) 213-6215 | |
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